In this episode of Excess Returns, we’re joined by Rob Thummel of Tortoise Capital to discuss the critical intersection of energy and technology. Rob explains why “electricity is the new oil” as AI and data center demand reshape global power needs. We explore the future energy mix, investment opportunities across natural gas, nuclear, and renewables, and how investors can position for decades of transformation in the energy ecosystem.

Topics covered:

How AI is driving a new era of electricity demand
The evolving U.S. energy mix: oil, gas, nuclear, and renewables
Why electricity is becoming the new oil
The scale of power needed to support AI and data centers
Opportunities and challenges in renewables and battery storage
The resurgence of nuclear and the role of natural gas
How U.S. shale transformed inflation and global energy markets
Energy infrastructure and why it offers steady returns
How the TCAI ETF captures the “AI infrastructure” opportunity
Risks and resilience of the U.S. power grid
Lessons from 30 years investing in energy

Timestamps:
00:00 Electricity is the new oil and the future of AI energy demand
02:00 The evolving U.S. energy mix and global demand growth
08:00 Why electricity, not oil, will power the next economic era
11:00 How much power AI and data centers will need
15:00 Can renewables meet rising energy demand?
20:00 The comeback of nuclear and its challenges
25:00 How U.S. shale changed global energy and inflation
32:00 Why energy infrastructure is less volatile than commodities
36:00 Inside Tortoise’s new AI infrastructure ETF (TCAI)
43:00 The rise of digital and electricity infrastructure plays
45:00 How Tortoise evaluates investments and valuations
49:00 The resilience and future expansion of the U.S. grid
52:00 Closing lessons: contrarian investing and energy’s importance

Electricity Is the New Oil | Rob Thummel on the Energy Opportunity from the AI Boom

Excess Returns