Wendy Gonzalez is the CEO of Sama, an ethical AI company that provides training and jobs with equitable pay and benefits to those who face the greatest barriers to stable employment. Among the companies it provides AI development data to are Microsoft, Ford, Walmart, Google, and many others. But before its current incarnation, Sama was a very different organization. It began as a non-profit, the brainchild and lifelong passion of its founder, Leila Janah, who sadly passed away in 2020. Her vision was to provide under-served communities in sub-Saharan Africa with opportunities for what she called “dignified work.” She believed this was the fastest and most sustainable way for people to not only gain their financial independence but to spread prosperity in their communities. Wendy and I discussed the advantages of being a company that puts human potential and intelligence first in everything it does from numerous angles. Sama’s example shows beyond a doubt that everything we’ve been taught about how to succeed in business is far from the only way – or even the best way – to thrive. In addition, we touched on: • Why it’s difficult to think long-term as a non-profit • The relationship between human judgment and AI • Why Sama became a B-Corp • The power of putting clear ethical boundaries on the work you accept • Why choosing investors that align with your mission is make-or-break • The future of AI and multi-modal models • And more

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Where to find Wendy Gonzalez

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendy-gonzalez-a319788/

Where to find Eric:

• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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In This Episode We Cover:

(05:17) The importance of our relationship to the people who make the products we use

(06:42) The human care that goes into AI development

(07:57) Sama’s mission

(09:12) How Sama got to its leadership position in the creation of ethical AI

(10:31) The focus on valuing human judgment in work

(13:50) The Sama origin story

(17:13) The informal economy vs. the formal economy

(18:36) How Sama’s model helps break the poverty cycle

(20:01) Giving human capital a chance to shine

(21:30) Why Sama doesn’t pay people for training and the success of that approach

(23:44) Leila Janah and her vision for Sama

(27:38) How and why Sama converted to a for-profit company with a foundation attached

(29:42) Identifying AI as the pivot

(31:02) The difficulties of having a long-term plan in the non-profit world

(32:49) Why Sama needed to build its own technology and raise the money to do so

(36:10) How a non-profit becomes a for-profit

(37:29) How Sama split into two entities: a company and a foundation

(39:41) Sama’s governance structure including how the foundation is represented in the

(43:56) Choosing mission-aligned investors

(45:46) How Sama’s success disproves conventional business theory

(52:00) Turning a liability into strategy

(53:47) How Sama’s mission led it to create real value and be in position for the emergence of AI

(58:06) The need for standards and ethical guidelines for the data supply chain

(1:01:46) Combating bias and danger through visibility

(1:03:57) The case for ethical data as a competitive strategy

(1:07:21) Wendy’s thoughts on what the future of AI will bring

(1:10:30) Lighting round, including the creation of Sama’s Ethics Guild

(1:23:46) What Wendy wishes she’d known ten years ago

You can find the transcript and references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/

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Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

AI’s Human Backbone: The Hidden Hands That Shape The Technology | Wendy Gonzalez (Sama)

The Eric Ries Show