Our exclusive conversation with Don Norman, co-founder and principal emeritus at Nielsen Norman Group, is the author of The Design of Everyday Things. This interview is now #1 trending on Design YouTube (and ADPList meetups, below ⬇️).

21st Century Design, Controversy, AI, Hard Problems, and Legacy

Don Norman is an emeritus Distinguished Professor at the University of California, San Diego. He's a co-founder of the Nielsen Norman group and has held executive positions at Apple and HP. He has authored 21 books, including "Emotional Design" and "Design of Everyday Things," and his latest book is "Design for a Better World."

* Evolution of designers and leaders since the 80s

* Artificial Intelligence on humanity

* Why there’s a lack of “designer” CEOs

* Hardest problem to solve

* Why Generalist will be important

* How to work on important frontiers

* 21st Century Design and Ethics

* Why Apple’s take on simplicity is wrong

* Conflict of Don Norman’s past work

* Advice to designers, humans

Some key takeaways:

* Theory is far from reality—Design education needs to be more broadly based, focusing on design thinking skills rather than just drawing skills. Humanity-centered design considers the impact on all living things and the ecological system, not just individual users. STEM education lacks focus on people and history, which are crucial for understanding design and innovation.

* Apple is wrong about simplicity—Good design isn't just about looks; it's about functionality and usability, especially when things go wrong. Simplicity is complex, not just removing icons or buttons.

* Designers cannot just design—Designers must ensure their work not only addresses immediate economic needs but also contributes to long-term sustainability and societal well-being. Leadership requires more than just designing on Figma, it’s holistically viewing a problem.

Watch this full exclusive interview here.

Where to find Don Norman:

* Don Norman's LinkedIn

* Don Norman Design Award: https://dnda.design

* Don Norman’s new book: Design for a Better World:

Where to find more resources:

* 🍀 Subscribe for good luck: https://youtube.com/adplist

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 - Introduction

2:20 - Back from Retirement

4:12 - Philosophy

6:38 - Evolution of design

8:02 - Problem with design industry

9:10 - HCI is wrong

12:03 - No Design CEOs

15:21 - Power, Wealth

16:40 - Artificial Intelligence

23:25 - Surprising evolution of AI

31:19 - Controversy

35:32 - What's wrong with Apple

38:38 - Virtual reality

40:30 - Technologist

42:38 - Theory vs reality

44:38 - Generalist

45:53 - People, History

48:13 - Hardest problem

51:20 - Great designers

53:38 - Conflict of past work

55:53 - Better world

1:00:29 - Educate on history

1:00:57 - Legacy, Don Norman's Prize

1:04:42 - Sustainability

1:07:43 - Ethics, Morality, Fairness

1:08:56 - 21st Century

1:12:18 - Final advice

—

PS. Want more resources for senior designers & design leaders?

* Julie Zhuo (ex-VP of Design, Meta): Early Facebook Days, Leaving Meta & Building Data-Informed Products. YouTube, Substack.

* Jakob Nielsen: Why AI is Changing Design (forever) feat. Sarah Gibbons. YouTube.

If you find this post valuable, check out our top posts:

* What six years at FAANG taught me about designer growth

* A guide to becoming a senior product designer

* This is the 1 skill designers will need

—

✨ ADPList Meetups in April 2024 ✨

RSVP for ADPList Community-organized meetups happening soon—click the city name to register:

* Tokyo 🇯🇵, April 3rd—Thanks to Jarell Alvarez!

* Gdańsk 🇵🇱, April 4th—Thanks to Damian Szulakowski!

* Raleigh 🇺🇸, April 4th—Thanks to Tim Rosenberg!

* São Paulo 🇧🇷, April 11th—Thanks to Echos Lab!

* Noida 🇮🇳, April 12th —Thanks to Shivangi Pande!

* Accra 🇬🇭, April 12th—Thanks to Chinaa Emmanuel!

* Bucharest 🇷🇴, April 13th—Thanks to Eliza M. & Raluca M.!

* Dubai 🇦🇪, April 13th—Thanks to Sanjin Celeski!

* Berkeley 🇺🇸, April 14th—Thanks to Rachel Finn!

* Hong Kong 🇭🇰, April 15th—Thanks to Vince Siu, Joanna, & Michael Tam!

* Toronto 🇨🇦, April 20th—Thanks to Ivan Damnjanović!

* Toronto 🇨🇦, April 26th—Thanks to Nicholas Sohail Hussain!

* Central Hong Kong 🇭🇰, April 26th—Thanks to Stephanie Lau!

* Syracuse 🇺🇸, May 1st—Thanks to Dianna Miller & Gillian Schneider!

* Singapore 🇸🇬, May 10th—Thanks Pimnara, Felix & Carousell!

👉 Can’t find your city and want to host one? It takes 10 minutes (i.e. pick a date and location), and you get to meet awesome people from our community. Learn more.

Thank you for reading ADPList’s Newsletter. I hope you found it valuable. Forward to a friend if you did or share on social to get others thinking.

I'll keep creating great stuff if you keep watching, listening, or reading. I read every reply if you care to reply :). You might get an answer back.

Until next week.

Felix Lee

Get full access to ADPList’s Newsletter at adplist.substack.com/subscribe

Don Norman

View From The Top: Design | AI | Career